Curse

Deleet · Jan 04, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Priest Of Sin

Prophecies= No Grind (YAY!)
Factions= 10k Faction Grind (BOO!)
Nightfall= Sunspear Point Grind (BOO!), Hero Grind (DOUBLE BOO!)

Gind= LAME.

LAME= Word of the week.

Prophecies was a long GRIND to level 20, IMO, you should be level 20 at the end of Pre-searing.

Factions was a lot faster, unluckilly, they shot themselves in the foot with the stupid quests in the city and the 10k faction requirement to get further in PvE storyline. Leveling was nice and quick.

Nightfall, more grind than Factions to level up, but still much less than Prophecies. Still having some grinding with Sunspear pionts and low level heroes. Sunspear points and heroes have been fixed for non-elonian characters though.

-

So in terms of Guild Wars grinding:

Prophecies, Long grind.
Factions, Fast grind.
Nightfall, Medium/medium long grind.

-

Just my thoughts.

Orinn · Jan 05, 2007, 01:21 AM // 01:21

You know, I noticed today that the quest "And a hero Shall lead Them" has as its requirements: achieve the rank of Sunspear General OR be a leader that kormir has recruited from overseas. I never saw an update note for this, but Canthan/Tyrian characters don't have to grind for teh Sunspear General title anymore, and Elonan characters who do even a few quests and hit the shrines along the way will have it by then without much difficulty.

One I DID see a note for is that foreign characters get heros at level 15 now (at least, the initial 4: Koss, Dunkoro, Melonni, and Tahlkora- Acolyte Jin was level 11 when I got her) and having a single level 15 hero required in a level 20 area isn't a huge handicap anymore.

Looks like ANET has actively taken steps to reduce the grind for NF. Sunspear points less of a problem, hero levelling less of a problem, and Lightbringer points are a bonus, they aren't required for anything really (but they make things easier.)

The quests of "run here, talk to person X, run 3 zones away, talk to person Y, run another 2 zones, kill boss Z" I don't consider grind, but a time sink. And most are skippable if you wish to skip them.

Zonzai · Jan 05, 2007, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pompeyfan

When was that then as only last week I had to farm sunspear points on my tyrian necro to get to general so I could continue the storyline.

You're the exception to the rule because four weeks ago my warrior didn't have to.

Curse You · Jan 05, 2007, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pompeyfan

When was that then as only last week I had to farm sunspear points on my tyrian necro to get to general so I could continue the storyline.

The change was apparently implemented on December 1st. It seems that you just didn't notice the fact that the quest had updated and was telling you to go and speak with Koss, rather than to get to Sunspear General.

nekopowa · Jan 05, 2007, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Grind?
I've been playing asian mmorpgs before this, i was killing one type of monster in one area with xp gain about 10% in 16 hours. It was a waste of time. The grind required in gw at start on nightfall just shows how lazy and comfortable you got and find it hard to give minimum effort to achieve something.
You might as well go watch movies, no effort or interaction there.
Seriously, people whine about anything.

freekedoutfish · Jan 05, 2007, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

Prophecies was a long GRIND to level 20, IMO, you should be level 20 at the end of Pre-searing.

Please, please be joking when you say that its grind to get your character to level 20 in prophercies?

Prophercies is great and thats the way leveling up should be. Not just giving level 20 away after a few missions and quests. Earning your level and your armor and your secondary doesnt equal grind. It equals putting effort in.

The only real grind in prophercies and all 3 games, are titles like treasure hunter and wisdom. But they have benefits, so their worth it.

Nightfall and Factions are the worst with stupid titles which require *** amount of faction or sunspear or lightbringer points. They dont even benefit you except the effects they have on their unique skills. But you max those out long before you reach the max title on it.

Catsohori · Jan 05, 2007, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Personally the new system of titles is much better than close gate or running system. Because people can still get ran to the nearest outposts and not get a set of quests until they are a set rank within the organization. Lightbringer is a pain in the ass to get but you know, I have several friends who can already reach a decent level in a day. Sunspear isn't hard to attain if you just get some quests and burn them out.

This is not even close to the amount of grind to level or gain honor rankings in WoW. So seriously people, quite your whining, or just play the damn PvP edition.

moomoo12321 · Jan 05, 2007, 02:05 PM // 14:05

I came from a korean game called RO, that was the epitome of grind. At near max level, it would take WEEKS to level up. To level up 1%(till the next level) in 1 hour was considered efficient leveling.

I think if anyone came from my background, you would never complain of the grind.

To the person that said Factions was better, your opinion sure, but don't you feel it wrecks it? I remember the first time I got to lvl 20 in Prophecies, the wide grin on my face as I recalled all I went through to get there, the storylines, everything, you kind of felt like you leveled up with your character, you feel that your character went through all the missions and became stronger.

I played Factions and really just did a double-take when I was lvl 20 in 2 days. I was left with disappointment and a lack of will to go on, as I was already lvl 20, and the idea of the missions getting harder by level appeals to me.

Haven't really played NF much, but Prophecies was the best IMO.

The storyline progress was done brilliantly.

And the biggest gripe I have against Factions. You have to buy skills. I really miss the skill quests from Prophecies, and really do hope that they will be more frequently implemented in coming chapters.

As a person that would rather play for story, then money, I liked to unlock things as I did the story, and these skills...just weren't there.

I know it was a pvp orientated expansion, but still, more skill quests would have been good.

Is that the same as NF too? I don't know, as I haven't progressed very far in NF.

freekedoutfish · Jan 05, 2007, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by moomoo12321

I came from a korean game called RO, that was the epitome of grind. At near max level, it would take WEEKS to level up. To level up 1%(till the next level) in 1 hour was considered efficient leveling.

I think if anyone came from my background, you would never complain of the grind.

To the person that said Factions was better, your opinion sure, but don't you feel it wrecks it? I remember the first time I got to lvl 20 in Prophecies, the wide grin on my face as I recalled all I went through to get there, the storylines, everything, you kind of felt like you leveled up with your character, you feel that your character went through all the missions and became stronger.

I played Factions and really just did a double-take when I was lvl 20 in 2 days. I was left with disappointment and a lack of will to go on, as I was already lvl 20, and the idea of the missions getting harder by level appeals to me.

Haven't really played NF much, but Prophecies was the best IMO.

The storyline progress was done brilliantly.

And the biggest gripe I have against Factions. You have to buy skills. I really miss the skill quests from Prophecies, and really do hope that they will be more frequently implemented in coming chapters.

As a person that would rather play for story, then money, I liked to unlock things as I did the story, and these skills...just weren't there.

I know it was a pvp orientated expansion, but still, more skill quests would have been good.

Is that the same as NF too? I don't know, as I haven't progressed very far in NF.

NF is a slightly good blend of prophercies and factions.

20 missions compared to 13 in factions. Bonus missions mostly instead of timed. A farely decent storyline, although re-using old enemies was a bit of a cheat I think.

The leveling up is slower then factions, but it still doesnt feel as acomplished as prophercies. You just reach lvl20 at any given point, but it still feels meaningless.

There is no assention or similarties. It kind of goes from fairly easy to stupid hard at a given point and it just feels unbalanced in that sense.

It feels more structured and the Heroes are great and a god-send (i.e titan quests). But i feels gimicky to me. Prophercies still is, and always will be the best one. The problem is that you have players coming over from Factions or NF and saying.....

"why is it taking so long to reach lvl20, where are the max weapons and armor? I have to do what to change my secondary?"

....and winging about it.

NF also has two stupid grinding titles which do nothing for you other then effect the odd skill. They would be relatively easy to attain if there was a better, more fun way to do it. But at the moment you gain points from basically farming and grinding on creatures.

Anet why??????????

mqstout · Jan 05, 2007, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Anyone who's ever tried to get a respectable number of skills (even non-elite) in the game on any particular character realizes the grind involved.

Crom The Pale · Jan 05, 2007, 06:31 PM // 18:31

People seem to think that playing the game = grind....

Grinding is when you have to kill the same monster over and over again 100's or 1000's of times in the same location for some really stupid purpose.

This does not exist in GW.

Yes you have to gain sunspear points, by doing quests and exploring the map picking up hunt blessings and killng things that are trying to kill you just for walking to close to them!

Yes you have to do quests to progress through the story and unlock missions...thats part of the game.

Yes you need to lvl up your char and your Hero's, bye playing the game, doing quests/missions. You end up with the right lvl at the right point in the game if you follow all quests and explore the world your adventureing in.

The lightbringer tittle that gives you added protection/dmg can be aquired in about 1-2 hours of exploring and picking up hunts/quests. You really don't require above rank 3 to beat the game with ease.

The ONLY grind in GW is to aquire tittles and high end armor. And there both optional, unneeded extras to give people that have completed all quests/missions something else other than pvp to do.

You can play the game, you can sit in cities and chat, you can lean back and watch on observer mod or you can walk away from the keyboard and do something else.

Please stop complaining about playing a game

Not A Fifty Five · Jan 05, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekopowa

Grind?
I've been playing asian mmorpgs before this, i was killing one type of monster in one area with xp gain about 10% in 16 hours. It was a waste of time. The grind required in gw at start on nightfall just shows how lazy and comfortable you got and find it hard to give minimum effort to achieve something.
You might as well go watch movies, no effort or interaction there.
Seriously, people whine about anything.

You're right, it was a waste of time, how is this relevent then?

Also, so you're saying that killing 600 bugs somehow makes you a general and is a good idea to put into the game?

Curse You · Jan 05, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five

You're right, it was a waste of time, how is this relevent then?

Also, so you're saying that killing 600 bugs somehow makes you a general and is a good idea to put into the game?

Technically, Guild Wars is a waste of time. So therefore, two wastes of time, are relevent to each other.

Also, to get Sunspear General, you don't have to keep killing the same monsters over and over. You can just do quests, and just have the bounties on while you do the quests. I have yet to do any grinding on my Paragon, yet I already got to Sunspear General. If I were to do all the remaining quests, and always have bounties on me while doing them, I would probably get about half way to Sunspear Castellan. After that, I might have to do some farming, however, it isn't nessicary that I do so.

Not A Fifty Five · Jan 05, 2007, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Technically, Guild Wars is a waste of time. So therefore, two wastes of time, are relevent to each other.

Also, to get Sunspear General, you don't have to keep killing the same monsters over and over. You can just do quests, and just have the bounties on while you do the quests. I have yet to do any grinding on my Paragon, yet I already got to Sunspear General. If I were to do all the remaining quests, and always have bounties on me while doing them, I would probably get about half way to Sunspear Castellan. After that, I might have to do some farming, however, it isn't nessicary that I do so.

His example wasn't relevent. He was saying that grinding was a waste of time and then saying this grinding WASN'T a waste of time, completely illogical. And fine, sure you can do a bunch of silly side quests, if you liek it that's cool. We're saying who the hell wants to HAVE to do that to progress the storyline?

Curse You · Jan 05, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five

His example wasn't relevent. He was saying that grinding was a waste of time and then saying this grinding WASN'T a waste of time, completely illogical. And fine, sure you can do a bunch of silly side quests, if you liek it that's cool. We're saying who the hell wants to HAVE to do that to progress the storyline?

You keep ignoring my statement that you don't have to grind to progress in the storyline. Grinding (as stated before) is when you kill the same few monsters in the same small area for hours. Doing a bunch of quests is not grinding, nor is doing PvP (i.e. Fort Aspenwood).

It took me all of an hour or so to go from Sunspear Commander to Sunspear General on my Paragon. All I did was quests while having the bounties active. That is far from a grind.

Mr_Cynical · Jan 05, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Hero requirements make sense. Your point about having a level 10 hero at a level 20 area is moot since they made it so that when you bring a non-Elonian character over all heroes are at least level 15.

Er... no. My Tyrian Elem has a lvl2 Koss and a lvl6 Melonni in his party. The two heroes you get in Tyria and Cantha (Olias and Zenmai respectively) are lvl15, but the Elonian heroes are the same levels as NF characters get.

shifting shadows · Jan 05, 2007, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Some points were made that were invalid or open to interpretation.

First invalid point: three days ago I had to go out and complete a load of boring quests in order to gain Sunspear General so that I could advance the storyline. Whoever said that we don't need to gain sunspear points is wrong. That point is invalid. And since there have been no updates as of last night, it has not been changed. Only Tyrian and Canthan characters have no need of sunspear points. Still applies to Elonians.

First point open to interpretation: No serious grind in Guild Wars. Now I don't want to go off topic here, but that was a very broad statement, and deserves a broad response. Now I consider fow armor to require some serious grinding, and that would be labeled as EXTREME grind on my grind bar. I don't play World of Warcraft, Shadowbane, Runescape, or any other grind game because I hate grind. Most people who play Guild Wars feel the same. Also, we all know that titles are huge grind fests. Tell me if the Drunk title series is grind or not lol. 10,000 minutes drunk for Ale Hound is definitely grind. Sunspear points isn't as serious grind, but it's still grind nonetheless.

Another point open to interpretation: Some people seem to be misunderstanding what grind is. Grind is being forced to do something boring in order to get or do something fun in the game. That's how I define grind, and yes it is very broad for a reason. If I am playing a game, then I expect it to be fun. Games are supposed to be fun. Now if I am forced to do quests that are not, in fact, fun, then I am grinding. Some people believe that I was saying that I was going out and killing a ton of monsters. No, I was spending hours going out and completing quests I had no inclination to do.

I think the big misunderstanding in this particular thread is what people are defining as grind. And maybe I need to clarify what my problem is for those people stuck on their own definitions. The problem I've got is that we have to go out and do a ton of unnecessary things to get to the good parts of the game. The missions are what progresses the story and keeps things rolling, yet it is the quests, titles, and heroes we must wade through to get to the missions. Guild Wars was made to appeal to casual gamers, and casual gamers are people who like to jump into a game and get right to the juicy parts. Factions did an excellent job of this but Nightfall feels watered down. Maybe calling it grind is off, but being forced to go for titles I don't care about, do quests that are boring, and train NPCs so that I can DO the quests, missions, and titles is making for slow progress through a game we all expected to be about fast paced action.

Darksun · Jan 05, 2007, 09:00 PM // 21:00

wow. If this is grind (even Sunspear points) really need meds for ADD or SOMETHING. It's NOT hard. You'd have to rush off Istan faster than you can level properly to not get them in time with the main quests.

Honestly, why do you play the game if you don't enjoy quests? Doing the "pointless" side quests IS the game. It's story. It's action. it's exporation & challenge. That's the whole game! If you only enjoy the end, why play?

Curse You · Jan 05, 2007, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by shifting shadows

I think the big misunderstanding in this particular thread is what people are defining as grind. And maybe I need to clarify what my problem is for those people stuck on their own definitions. The problem I've got is that we have to go out and do a ton of unnecessary things to get to the good parts of the game. The missions are what progresses the story and keeps things rolling, yet it is the quests, titles, and heroes we must wade through to get to the missions. Guild Wars was made to appeal to casual gamers, and casual gamers are people who like to jump into a game and get right to the juicy parts. Factions did an excellent job of this but Nightfall feels watered down. Maybe calling it grind is off, but being forced to go for titles I don't care about, do quests that are boring, and train NPCs so that I can DO the quests, missions, and titles is making for slow progress through a game we all expected to be about fast paced action.

So you don't like doing quests? Then why are you playing Guild Wars? About half of the PvE content of the game is quests. Also, you seem to want it so that you don't have to work to get things. Your post says to me "I want to be able to get to the end game stuff because I like it better, but I hate having to do work to get it."

Seriously, Drunkard is a grind? How lazy are you? It is easy to work on the drunkard title while having a chat with others in game. I have had people drunk while doing missions with me. Heck, you can be drunk while you farm.

Doing quests in Guild Wars has long been a requirement in the game. Would you feel better if all those quests were labeled as primary quests instead?

Oh and about your last comment. If you want "fast paced action" go play a FPS. This is an ORPG (onling role playing game), it's not all about the action.

I never intend to make "attack" posts, but when I see a post that is so whinny and filled with opinions stated as though they are fact, I can't stand by and say nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Cynical

Er... no. My Tyrian Elem has a lvl2 Koss and a lvl6 Melonni in his party. The two heroes you get in Tyria and Cantha (Olias and Zenmai respectively) are lvl15, but the Elonian heroes are the same levels as NF characters get.

That would be bacause you got them before the update.

lyra_song · Jan 06, 2007, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Hee hee....you think GW has grind?????

You should really play RO

Start a Lvl 1 Novice:
Lvl up to lvl 9. Heres the chart:

Level 1 : Can now initiate a trade with another character
Level 2 : Can now use emotions
Level 3 : Can now sit to double HP and SP regen rate
Level 4 : Can now create a chat room
Level 5 : Can now join a party
Level 6 : Can now use Kapra/Kafra Storage
Level 7 : Can now form a party
Level 8 : Can now enable PK (Player Killing)
Level 9 : Can now change class

Now you have your starter class (lets say Swordsman)

Now you lvl to lvl 40 and gain skills.

Once you reach lvl 40 to become either: Knight or a Crusader.

Now you lvl to reach 99 and become reborn into a High Novice.

Now you have to relevel to become a High Swordsman.

Now you do it all over again to become a Lord Knight or a Paladin.

Reach max lvl, and voila. You're ready to PvP.
--------------------------------
Imagine being a ranger, and having to kill enemies just to gather materials to make arrows.

Imagine being a monk and gathering healing potions.

Our weapons dont break.

We dont need potions, res items.

We dont need to dig into a 5 level dungeon just to kill 1 guy, who spawns once every 60 minutes, just to get a 5% chance for a drop of a MANDATORY item.

-------------------------------
Grind? What grind?

Grab a XP scroll and explore the map.

When you die, theres no XP penalty.

Try grinding that off! (*looks at her friends trying to drag her to D&D*)